Between fronting Retaliate, playing guitar in such bands as In Control and Somali Pirates, and hosting the long-running 185 Miles South podcast, Zack Nelson has become one of Southern California hardcore’s most recognizable voices. His latest project, Subversive Intent, finds him picking up guitar duties again for a fast, punk-driven hardcore band that deliberately avoids modern beatdown clichés in favor of a speedier sound.
Released through Rebirth Records, the band’s debut LP pulls heavily from the lineage of Battalion of Saints, Final Conflict, Varukers, and Discard while still sounding firmly rooted in present-day hardcore.
In this interview, Nelson discusses why “modern beatdown sucks,” social media brain rot, San Diego hardcore history, and Over My Dead Body vocalist (and frequent 185 Miles guest panelist) Daniel Sant’s seemingly unbeatable hardcore trivia knowledge.
How did the idea to start Subversive Intent formulate? Also, how did you decide to handle guitar duties over vocals this time out?
I was trying to will a new Retaliate record into existence, so I picked up the guitar and started writing. With us so geographically far apart these days, we decided against making another record, and since I was in the middle of a creative spurt, I decided to do something new.
Singing blows and playing guitar rules, so that was an easy choice. Modern beatdown sucks even more than singing in a band, and it's everywhere, so I kinda wanted to do the opposite: just a fast band with no breakdowns.
How far do you go back with the other guys in the band?
I've been friends with our singer, Sergio (The Eulogy), since the late '90s. He's from Elsinore, was bros with the Collision guys, and would always be at the Showcase Theater in Corona. The other dudes are San Diego scene vets and have played in a bunch of other bands.
From the Rebirth Records description to the Maximumrocknroll review, Battalion of Saints is mentioned as a key stylistic touchpoint for the album. What's your take on that? What would you say are the influences that went into the stew as you figured out SI's sound? I hear some bullet belt-style punk shit happening as well.
As a San Diego band, the Battalion of Saints comparison is very flattering, of course. I think that just comes from writing fast hardcore music that's not based around rushing to a breakdown. The original inspiration for our sound was that Discard song, "Death From Above." I wanted to do songs like that, but cut them in half and extend the solo, but writing d-beat type stuff that doesn't sound super generic is really hard, so I aimed more for a Battalion of Saints/Final Conflict/Varukers Another Religion-era hybrid.
The lead guitar parts on the LP are a sweet touch. Talk to me a bit about Luis and what he brings to the band. Did you also contribute to the lead action?
If we weren't going to have mosh parts, I needed a shredder since I cannot. Luis has jammed with a bunch of bands and has filled in for Take Offense on occasion, so he has chops. Plus, we needed someone with a leather jacket and a dangly earring to even out my flip-flops and keep our punk cred up [laughs]. I played the lead on "Payaso," and the first half of the solo on "Subversive Intent," and Luis played everything else. He's a great lead guitarist.
READ MORE: Naysayer Singer Gary Gunwald on the Rise, Burnout, and Return of a Richmond Hardcore Staple
The lyrics on "Coerced Perception" caught my attention, and I went to Bandcamp to dig in. How is your relationship with social media these days? Do you see it as a necessary evil because you use it to promote 185 Miles and any band stuff you have going?
The song "Coerced Perception" is more about the billionaires behind the algorithms who are basically sending people into doom loops of radicalization to maintain engagement at the expense of their sanity.
I'd say I'm not a fan of social media, and for that reason, I'm also pretty bad at it. I just try to make a post for every 185 Miles South podcast episode and try to post some old flyers or clippings on stories to stay active, but I try not to spend any time scrolling on it. My algorithm is so fucked up that it just feeds me mostly simp ass hardcore explainer videos that just trigger me or other bullshit for posers.
You've done some other things with Bob Wilson/Rebirth Records in the past through 185 Miles. How did your relationship begin, and how did SI come to join his label's roster?
That's a really good question. One of the best and most bizarre things about hardcore is that sometimes people just come into your circle randomly, and it feels like they've always been there and you've been friends forever. We refer to it as the "secret handshake" of hardcore...basically, there's an instant bond between people who actually get it.
The short answer would be that I don't remember. I know I reached out to him a couple of years ago to do that 185 Miles South of Somewhere scene report zine [Ed. note: How did I miss this?!], and then when Subversive Intent was ready to put out a demo, he was the obvious dude to ask cuz his label at the time was very demo-centric.
Bob is one of the people who really does a masterful job of having the pulse of the youth culture while still putting on for the old school. It's a delicate balance, and only a few can thread that needle. I was stoked that he was down to lose money on our LP also.
I first moved to Los Angeles in 2006, and I remember one of my early co-workers here, who is a huge hardcore nerd, said that the San Diego scene wasn't that exciting. Firstly, do you think that was a fair assessment of that era there? And, what do you think about the scene there now?
It's no surprise that a co-worker talking about hardcore was wrong. Keep in mind that's the year I moved to San Diego so I'm not the best authority to speak on it, but 2006 seemed raging to me. That band PC Death Squad was pulling nice sized crowds and playing everywhere. They did a split 7" that year with a young band called Take Offense. In the few years that followed that band came into their own musically and built a great scene. It was one of the most vibrant scenes and some of the strongest years that I've ever witnessed in my 30 years of hardcore.
Now, if your friend was referring to the '90s screamo/indie rock scenes, he was correct and my bad for the initial judgement.
As a fellow digester of tons of new hardcore, how do you keep from getting burnt out on it? Do you ever feel jaded?
I've felt jaded for a quarter century and am an S-tier hater so when I find stuff that I love, I really love it and that makes everything worth it. I dunno dude, people love fishing right? Most of your day is standing around while nothing happens but sometimes you hook something and get stoked enough to stand around on your next day off and do it again. I guess digesting modern hardcore is kinda like that. It's mostly a waste of time but the rare payoff makes it all worth it.
OK, Zack, here is the most important question of all: Is there anyone you know who can beat Daniel Sant at hardcore trivia?
No one has and no one ever will beat Dan Sant in hardcore trivia.
***
The Subversive Intent album is available on vinyl via Rebirth Records.
Check out 185 Miles South podcast on Instagram (even though Zack hates social media).
Tagged: retaliate, subversive intent
