With a musical journey that includes membership in such bands as Champion, Change, Dead Weight, and The Vows, I knew Chris Williams was someone I wanted to interview for 2000s Hardcore Week.
The Washington state native currently lives in San Luis Obispo where he is part of a collective putting on shows in the region. He's also plays guitar in Change, one of the better hardcore bands to come out in the last few years.
As many No Echo readers already know, the vocalist of Champion was accused of some truly horrible things. This interview doesn't mention any of that, but Chris did feel it was important to address the topic of rape and sexual assault, and his thoughts are included below.
Thanks for reading.
Tell me a bit about your upbringing.
I grew up in a suburb of Seattle called Kent in a very religious family. "Strict" isn’t really the most appropriate term, I would say it was a “principled” upbringing. We had plenty of rules, but they were coming from a place of love.
I was lucky enough to grow up in a loving home and the principles in that environment certainly shaped who I became and laid a foundation for my current morals, even though I definitely had my own way of doing things as an awkward introverted teenager.
What types of music did you first get into as a kid, and how did that ultimately lead into hardcore? Did you have someone who helped turn you onto that style of music and its culture?
The earliest music I remember listening to was a dubbed cassette tape I found outside in my neighborhood in grade school. I had no idea what it was, but I found this tape and listened to it all the time. Years later ,I figured out that it was Run-DMC’s Raising Hell. Outside of that, my parents had a record player and a bunch of LPs and I would often listen to any of those records; everything from Michael Jackson to Gilbert & Sullivan to Richard Marx to Jim Croce.
When I was in 6th grade we moved, and in our new neighborhood I met a friend whose musical tastes really laid a foundation for what I would grow to love. He introduced me to Descendents, Suicidal Tendencies, Nine Inch Nails, Stone Roses, The Cure, and NWA. I listened to all of that a ton growing up, but I also continued to listen to a bunch of other bad pop music as well.
It wasn’t until I was in high school and Nirvana blew up and really, it was the grunge explosion that made me zero in on punk and hardcore. Through those bigger grunge acts I found my way to Seaweed, which became my favorite band growing up. They were super hardcore adjacent; they were old hardcore kids and played with hardcore bands and hardcore kids were always at their shows stage diving and piling on for singalongs.
Ron Guardipee from Brotherhood was even Seaweed’s manager for a bit. The second time I saw Seaweed live, they played with Sparkmarker (OG lineup with Ryan singing) and I could instantly tell there was something different and special about their energy. It was just different.
READ MORE: Seaweed Vocalist Aaron Stauffer Looks Back on Their History, Discography
I was also watching a ton of skate and snowboard videos at the time, so I got into a bunch of punk stuff from the soundtracks of those videos. I fell in love with Fugazi from being around skateboarding.. then one day a friend said, “oh, you like Fugazi, wanna hear Ian’s old band?” and threw in a Minor Threat tape. That was the pinpoint moment where I fell in love with hardcore. The absolute rage and intensity dripping from the opening “What happened to youuuuuu!”
From there, the fast straight edge bands were what grabbed me the most and I got into Gorilla Biscuits, Youth of Today as well as Undertow; who were the local straight edge kings at the time.
What were some of the hardcore bands that you saw live during that early period?
Sparkmarker was definitely the first hardcore band I saw. Sadly, I never caught Undertow while they were originally around. I knew of them and picked up At Both Ends and the two EPs, but never caught wind of any shows they were playing. I really didn’t know where to go to find out about their shows.
Some of the first local bands I got to see were when bigger bands like CIV or Shelter or Quicksand would play, and a local band like Botch or Balance of the World would open for them. Then that was the gateway to getting flyers for local shows and zines like Point Furthest From the Middle, Excursion Fanzine, and Rust, and finding out more about the Seattle scene beyond just Undertow.
Trial was the Seattle band in that era that really resonated with me. Most of the other bands were doing more metal or noisy stuff, and I liked them too.. but I was still really craving the fast stuff and Trial had that speed and intensity that I loved in bands like GB, YOT, Minor Threat, etc.
Did you find your local scene to be welcoming to you as a young kid getting into it?
For the most part, people were welcoming. It was a bit intimidating because everyone at that time was into buying vintage cloths and rocking pompadours and that felt a bit fancy for a dirty skater kid like me.. but any time I would try talking to any of these people they were always nice and welcoming.
At what point did you claim straight edge and what were the circumstances around it? Since your parents were religious, did they understand it?
Growing up in a religious household, abstaining from drugs and alcohol was something that just fit for me, even if I kinda went my own way in a lot of other areas. Before I found out about straight edge I always thought it was just more rebellious and punk that all my friends drank or smoke and I never did. It was one area that I sort of planted a flag on and needed to be an individual on.
The thing that really grabbed me about straight edge, though, was I was always trying to start punk bands or skate with my friends and they would always end up selling their musical gear or their skateboards to buy weed and that really frustrated me and pushed me to a point where it went beyond this quirky little bit I did with my friends where I refused to do what they were doing.
It really pissed me off that they were prioritizing these stupid temporary things over what I was really passionate about doing. So, when I found out what sxe was, it was something that just kinda described how I already felt.
My family never really knew what straight edge was when I was growing up. Because I was kinda an awkward introvert I really didn’t talk to them about it. More than anything, I think they wondered why I had X’s all over everything (laughs).
How did you and the other members of Champion initially meet and what is the origin story of the band?
I didn’t really know any of the guys from Champion from before I started going to shows. We all just came up in the scene around the same time and were the young kids moshing and stagediving and bringing together a group of young weirdos for a friend group.
The genesis for the band was really just us all being super-hyped after a Ten Yard Fight, Fastbreak, Built to Last show and wanting to start a band that played that style of hardcore. We were all listening to a lot of Youngblood and Teamwork bands at the time and seeing a show of bands that played that style of music at that time was just super inspiring.
There was a BBQ at a friend’s house the next day and we all just decided then and there we would start this band. The name was originally a joke. We were brainstorming band names and I think Eagle [Barber] had Champion socks on and threw it out as a joke and we kept jokingly referring to the band as Champion until we found a better name and the more we joked about it the more we liked it.
READ MORE: 2017 interview with Chris Kelly (97a, Teamwork Records)
Outside of the lyrics and overall ethos of the band, what was discussed in terms of the musical influences when Champion began?
I mean, the main thing is we wanted to be a straight edge band, and we wanted to play that style of fast hardcore that was embodied by those bands on Youngblood and the original Youth Crew.
And we wanted to have a ton of energy live, and jump around and go crazy, even if we were sloppy, the energy was more important than trying to sound great… which, honestly, we probably couldn’t have done if we just stood there.
Let’s jump to Demo ‘99. Since it’s the first material the band released, how do you feel about it today?
Quite frankly, it’s bad. The recording is horrible, the songs are worse. From a Discogs perspective, it’s a mess trying to figure out the different versions for anyone interested in collecting.
At the time, I was talking to a bunch of other hardcore lovers online in Yahoo! hardcore chat rooms and meeting people who loved fast hardcore and who wanted to help spread the word. So, friends in various different places of the world would dub it and make their own artwork for friends.
We really didn’t know what we were doing. It was all of our first bands really. We didn’t know how to do it, we just knew we wanted to do it. So, we did… in an ideal world that demo wouldn’t exist. But I don’t hate that it does. It certainly is important to the story of where the band started and where it went from there.
Champion recorded Demo 2000 with Clint Werner, one of the guitarists in Seaweed.
Seaweed was my favorite band growing up and yeah, I think everyone in the band really liked The Weed. I saw them a bajillion times over the years and still love them to this day. So, recording with Clint was a no-brainer, especially given the fact he recorded some Undertow stuff.
We recorded Come Out Swingin’ with him too. And I actually played his SG on that recording because mine was having tuning issues. The whole reason I played an SG in the first place was watching Wade from Seaweed rock an SG in the “Bill” music video. So, this was a fun full-circle moment for me.
Describe the reaction Champion received after the demos came out and you started playing those songs live.
With the first demo, we were lucky enough to have a solid friend group (all the other young moshers) who were pumped we were even doing a band and just hyped to support their friends. And I think some of the older guys like the guys in Trial were supportive because they recognized that while we were not good, our hearts were in the right place and we brought a good energy. So they backed us hard and really helped push us in a lot of ways.
Timm from Trial joined the band before our second demo. And he was a huge catalyst for us learning how to do a lot of things. I would attribute most of the improvement in overall quality from the first demo to the second to things he taught us. Things as simple as the string players getting together separately to work on picking patterns to make sure the strumming was tight. When that second demo dropped we started to see some support beyond our friend group and that was a really awesome feeling.
READ MORE: Count Me Out Vocalist Jason Mazzola Tells the 2000s Hardcore Band’s Story
How did you guys hook up with Mike Mowery and Phyte Records for the release of the Come Out Swinging EP in 2001?
I first met Mike at a Trial/Left With Nothing show at the Pickle Patch in Goleta, California. Mike was living there at the time. He had put out a record for Botch, and he also did a record for Committed, who were close friends of ours and kindred fast straight edge hardcore lovers.
Then, whenever Mike would come up to Seattle with Good Clean Fun I would reconnect with him. He invited me to fill in on guitar for Good Clean Fun on a US tour and we became friends through that experience. We naturally were thrilled that the guy who put out Botch and Committed records was willing to put out our EP.
He did the CD and Platinum Records from Germany did the 7”. I met Danny Platinum through John from Down in Flames/Tear It Up, who was another Yahoo! hardcore chat connection.
Was Champion playing outside of Washington often during that time?
We did one West Coast tour in '99 off the first demo. Then the second demo dropped in 2000 right before I went out with Good Clean Fun. So, I brought a shoebox full of demos on tour and that gave me an opportunity to get that out to friends I was making all over the US.
I became friends with The First Step and What Feeds the Fire from demo swapping at those GCF shows. Then the first time we played the east coast (after Come Out Swingin) we played a weekend with both of those bands and that was another cool complete-the-circle moment.
There’s a song on that EP called “The Insider” that has some interesting lyrics. Tell me about that one and why you think it’s connected with so many people in the hardcore scene throughout the years.
That song was a reaction primarily to the 60 Minutes segment about straight edge gangs. It was a song about the media’s attempts and failures to represent something (straight edge) they really didn’t understand. The song was named after the movie The Insider, which was about the whistleblower who brought to light all the shady stuff the tobacco industry was doing. I believe all that stuff came to light in a 60 Minutes segment coincidently (or maybe not.. I don’t remember if we knew that at the time).
That was the first song we wrote after our '99 demo and really became a song I hated playing live because it was old and clunky and had a hammered power chord that was tedious to play live. But it had a big repetitive singalong that everyone knew and was easy to dog pile for. So, we couldn’t not play it.
While prepping for this, I read that someone from American Nightmare had tipped Chris Wrenn at Bridge Nine about Champion and that’s how you got on the label’s radar. How do you remember it happening and were other labels courting you at the time?
That’s absolutely true. Timbomb from American Nightmare was super-pivotal in connecting us with B9. I had met Azy and Jesse from the original AN lineup on the Trial/Left With Nothing tour in '98. They were in a band called Falling Action from Redding, who were another of the very few bands on the West Coast playing fast hardcore at the time. So, we hit it off instantly.
Then when they moved to Boston and started AN I knew I had to help spread the word for their new band and I distro’d the AN demo in Seattle (bought like 20 and made all my friends buy it from me). Then later, when AN first came to Seattle off their LP, we played with them and Tim really hyped us up to Wrenn and was like, “we played with this band in Seattle and they were awesome you have to put out their next record.”
If I’m remembering this correctly, we had just kicked off our second West Coast tour, maybe two or three days in, when Timbomb IM’d me on AIM saying something like, “hey, you should email Chris at B9, he’s interested in doing a record with you.” Phyte Records was kinda fizzling out at that time and I don’t think any other labels had expressed any interest, but it wouldn’t have mattered if there were others.
B9 was putting out all our favorite bands at the time, including our friends in Carry On and Panic (the new band Azy and Jesse from AN had started). So, the chance to be label makes with them… along with No Warning, Shark Attack, Hope Conspiracy, Cops & Robbers and more. We were beyond hyped to join that family.
Though I liked the previous release, it’s the Count Our Numbers EP where I truly began to be a Champion fan. You also started touring a ton after that record. From your perspective, was it a big leap of faith to decide to quit your jobs and dedicate so much time and energy to the band and going out on the road?
For me, it really wasn’t a leap of faith at all. All I wanted to do was tour and play hardcore every night and see other hardcore bands and mosh and stagedive for them and see new places and meet other people who loved hardcore like I did. So, there was never really a “priority” I was neglecting to do this. It was thee priority. I also never quit any jobs to tour.
Champion was never really a big enough band to fully support us. We were lucky to be touring in an era where people still bought physical media.. and kinda in the sweet spot where CDs would sell and vinyl had made a comeback. So that certainly helped keep us afloat, but it didn’t really “pay the bills.” So, I would keep jobs as long as I could until they had to let me go because I was leaving too often. Then I would just find another one when I was back from tour.
Eventually, I was lucky enough to find a job with a non-profit called Northwest Center (a great org focused on creating jobs for people with developmental disabilities) where my boss was psyched I was in a band and willing to let me come and go whenever I needed to. I kept this job all the way through college because they were so flexible with my schedule. It was really a perfect scenario.
There were actually a few other guys that worked there who were in punk bands. Andrew from Kiss it Goodbye/Playing Enemy worked there and would tour with Shai Hulud at that time. Another guy there played in The Briefs. Joe, who was actually the first drummer of Champion, worked there when he was playing in These Arms Are Snakes. Then Todd, the most definitive drummer of Champion (played on everything from CoS through the last show) also ended up working there after the band broke up.
How did you guys manage with each other on tour? Unless you’ve been out for more than a few weeks at a time, it’s tough for most people to understand that outside of the actual shows, how difficult it can be for a bunch of people traveling around in a van to get along all the time.
For the most part, we got along well. I think every band has tensions that come up when you’re in such close proximity under such strenuous financial, emotional and even physical circumstances. But what’s most important is how you manage tensions and hold each other accountable. And that’s something we really strove to do.
I believe Aram’s history as a counselor really contributed to that environment of accountability and communication. It was totally not in my more-passive-aggressive nature, but he really pushed for those healthy dialogs. The discussions would get heated at times, but they were always productive ultimately and we’d always end in a better place than where we started.
READ MORE: REACT! Records Founder Aram Arslanian Reflects Back on the Label’s Catalog
Did you feel a lot of pressure going into the recording of Promises Kept, not just because it was your debut album but also because there was so much momentum and attention focused on Champion by that point?
I think we felt pressure internally, more than anything, to make it the best we could make it. I’m sure there were external considerations; obviously we wanted people to like it and we wanted Chris Wrenn to be hyped on it… but to be completely honest, I don’t think either of our previous records set a crazy standard we had to live up to or anything like that.
Both EPs were fairly well received, but we really believed we had better in us, so we took the process super seriously. So, in that sense there was a lot of pressure, because we put it on ourselves. And the process was super intense. There were more than a few of those “healthy dialogs” along the way where I was sure I was watching the band breakup before my eyes… then by the end of the conversation we were again better than we were when it started. So, the process was extremely hard work for months.
But despite everything that would ever happen with this band, I’ll never as long as I live, forget the feeling I had as we walked out of the studio at like 5am the final day of tracking, and we all felt so good about the results of those months and months of intense self-scrutiny.
It’s an indescribable feeling of satisfaction. And honestly, that more than anything would set a standard that ultimately led to the band’s demise a couple years later. Because I don’t know if we could have ever topped how we felt that morning walking through the streets of Salem, Mass as the sun started to come up knowing that we just laid it all out there and made something we were really satisfied with.
What did Kurt Ballou bring to the recording sessions?
As far as Kurt’s involvement, he was great; a lot of fun to record with. We went there because he recorded Carry’s On’s A Life Less Plagued and we all thought it sounded so killer. We did some pre-production with him in the studio for a couple of days before we started tracking. Kurt was a great sounding board.
Some ideas he had we loved and kept and some we overruled. A few examples; On “Miles to Go” the song was originally longer, after a bulk of the tracking was done, his guidance was that it was too long and we agreed. He said, “hold on let me try something” and highlighted this whole section in the middle and deleted it and was like “how’s this sound” and we were like “PERFECT!”
On the song “Failure," the breakdown wasn’t mean enough-sounding and he suggested the key drop ring-out at 0:56. On the flip side, he didn’t like the song that became “The Truth” and recommended we scrap it. We disagreed and kept it, then it became our first single off the record and one that people really resonated with.
What do you remember about the reaction once Promises Kept came out? How aware were you about that aspect of the band (the hype, popularity)?
The first thing I remember is Chris Wrenn’s reaction to the rough mixes. He dug it. And that was hugely important to us in paying off the trust he put into us as a band. But right after we finished tracking we flew out to our first European tour with The Promise.
While Kurt was mixing, we were in Europe for 6 weeks and by the end of those 6 weeks Ben and Todd both decided they didn’t want to tour as much as we were planning to and quit the band.
Todd would later return to the band, but from Scotland we had to brainstorm who we would ask to play drums and bass and landed on Andy from The First Step and Desperate Measures and Brandon from Knives Out, American Nightmare, I Hate You. Neither were currently playing in any bands and both said yes and they were probably two of the first non-members outside of Wrenn to hear the new songs.
I remember Brandon commenting on how “big” it sounded. Sadly, some of that big-ness would be lost for a few years... Because we were in Europe immediately after tracking, we weren’t involved in the mix-down of the record and when we heard it, yes it sounded huge, but there were some things we didn’t like.
Most were smaller nit-picks, but there was an effect on the vocals that we just couldn’t live with. Kurt wasn’t available to re-mix because he was on the road with Converge. So, we did a second mix with Blair Calibaba who recorded Count Our Numbers.
In the meantime, because we had this original mix from Kurt and because all the other things were in motion for the LP pressing and timing for a record release show, we took a page from the Judge Chung King Can Suck It playbook and did a “record release” run of 150 with Kurt’s original mix. Then when the regular presses came out those were the second mixes from Blair.
The egregious vocal effect was gone and we fixed some of the other minor complaints, but it was lacking the bigness from Kurt’s mix. But that was something we just had to live with. Fast forward a few months and I’m not exactly sure how this conversation came about, but we decided with Kurt that we would have him do a third mix.
No disrespect to Blair’s mix or Kurt’s original in any way; both were more products of non-ideal scheduling conflicts. But we had Kurt mix it again and that third mix was a perfect combo of both mixes.
So, we decided with Wrenn, that the next chance we had for a new press, we would quietly slip in the third—and best—mix. So today, if you pull out three random Promises Kept LPs it’s possible you could be listening to three completely different mixes. Obviously, the final Kurt mix is what is on streaming and any vinyl coming from B9 nowadays.
You worked that album hard out on the road, including playing in South Korea. What memories stick out from that trip?
South Korea was amazing. The guys from The Geeks were really the ones behind getting us to South Korea and it was such an incredible experience playing there and getting to know those kids and play with them. The shows were great; especially the one in Seoul.
Some of those tours to Japan and Korea and Australia were really special. At that time most of the touring bands from the US were a bit more on the metal side of the spectrum. So, when we came to those places kids were super appreciative. We definitely weren’t the first e-standard HC band to play any of those places, but it was rare enough an experience that kids were beyond stoked.
We played Japan right after Promises Kept had just come out. So, most of those shows everyone knew the lyrics to the first song and that was about it. But when we played that song, it was next level. Especially the Tokyo show; it was absolutely insane. A lot of those Japan shows, when kids wanted an encore we would just play the song “Promises Kept” again because the reaction was so much fun.
READ MORE: The Geeks: Korean SXE Hardcore Unit Celebrate 20th Anniversary
Champion announced the band’s breakup at the beginning of 2006. What were the main contributing factors around that decision? It was surprising to learn the news because Champion was one of the more popular hardcore bands of that era.
It really wasn’t any one thing, but rather the culmination of a bunch of little things. I guess the big thing was that we were talking with Equal Vision Records about doing an LP with them and Steve [Reddy] was so awesome and supportive and we knew that if we did a record with him it needed to meet that Promises Kept bar that we had set for ourselves, and we knew we had to continue to tour like crazy to support it.
And we were willing to do that, but the more time we spent thinking about the investment in time and health and emotional toll of being on the road that much, the more daunting that became and we started talking about; what if we break up and just start new hardcore bands with each other? And the more we toyed around with that, the more we liked the idea of that and it just felt like the right time to call it quits.
The final Champion show was documented on the Different Directions live album and DVD. I’m sure it was a whirlwind day for you, but take me back to that show. How do you feel about the band’s performance, and what do you remember about saying goodbye to each other once it was all over that night?
We always knew that we wanted the conclusion of the band to be an exclamation point. We had seen other bands fizzle out and lose some of the energy and fire behind them and that was always something we wanted to be aware of not falling into that trap. So, when we decided to break up we knew we had to have a last show that put that exclamation point on our 8 years of doing this band and we wanted it to be a celebration with our friends and a celebration for the next generation of local bands.
The Answer and Sinking Ships were no-brainer locals to play—they were both doing a lot of great things and we had special bonds with them. And Allegiance and Outbreak were out of town bands that we also had really special connections with.
Our last show was on a Saturday and as we started to bring together plans for this one show someone had the idea to do shows on Friday and Sunday as well, since we knew a lot of friends would be in town. I don’t remember if this was our idea, or theirs, but our dear friends Matt Weltner, Zack Ellis, and Brian Skiffington were integral in making those other two days happen and we had a ton of killer bands play including Down to Nothing, Internal Affairs, The First Step, Ceremony, Lahar, Barricade, and others.
Ultimately, those three homies did such a bangup job making the pre and post shows happen that they realized they could do this sort of thing more. So, in that spirit, that trio started Rain Fest the following year.
The DVD and live record idea… I may be misremembering here, but I believe we got the idea from the Posi-Numbers DVD and I want to say, we even used the same crew to shoot our set who shot the Posi-Numbers DVD.
The next band you played in after Champion was The Vows with John Pettibone (Undertow, Himsa), Rob Moran (Unbroken, Over My Dead Body), Ryan Murphy (Undertow, Ensign), and Aram Arslanian (Champion, Betrayed).
Here’s what Rob told me about the band when I interviewed him on No Echo back in 2016: “I wish we could have done more, but we were all so busy, we never had enough time to write more songs. It never really caught on, but it's a great record and holds up, I think.”
Like I said earlier, before Champion broke up, we were already plotting our next bands together. Most of those first bands never got further than a few jams together. And actually; Aram, Murph, Rob and Pettibone wrote and recorded this and asked me to join on second guitar later.
Funny side note: when they were in the studio, apparently, Pettibone was MIA when it was time to track vocals. I was on the way to get pizza with Down to Nothing, who was in town, when I got a frantic call from Rob telling me they couldn’t track down Pettibone and he asked if I wanted to sing. I declined because I chose to prioritize pizza and homie time with the Richmond crew (laughs). And probably also knowing I could never replace Pettibone. Thankfully, he showed up and banged out those tracks.
We played maybe 3 or 4 shows together before things fizzled out. Murph and Rob both ended up moving away from Seattle and that was kinda the last nail in the coffin. But it was a really fun band to be in with some of my favorite people to play music with. And all long-time core vets who are still edge 15 or so years later. We never officially broke up and I would 100% be open to playing together again. Probably won’t ever happen, but who knows.
That brings us to Dead Weight, which is probably the hardest band you’ve played in to date. Is that a fair assessment? How did that band come together and what were some of the influences you guys drew upon?
The “hardest” may be fair. Though XWeapon CrewX may be in contention (laughs). That was a very short lived Shockwave-esque band I played bass in with Zach from The Answer. Also, I played bass in Gone But Not Forgotten for a bit, which was pretty damn hard.
Dead Weight was born out of my and Tory’s long-time mutual love for Killing Time. We wanted to start a band that was heavily influenced by NYHC. Agnostic Front, Killing Time, Cro-Mags, and Sick of It All were probably the biggest influences. When we first started jamming, we covered "Five Golden Rings" by Rest In Pieces…. Though that never made it out of the rehearsal space, sadly. Shoo Doop Da-Doop!
How did you find being the vocalist of a band versus playing an instrument? Also, what ended up happening with Dead Weight? I never recall seeing any kind of break up announcement or anything?
I loved it. It was a fun group of guys to play with and obviously different kind of energy with a mic vs an instrument. But being able to share ideas and speak so directly on things I’m seeing and feeling and want to address and urge other people to think about is empowering and humbling.
We never broke up officially. It was just another band that kinda fizzled out as people got other priorities. I’d be open to playing again sometime/somewhere, but again.. who knows.
Before we get to Change, whatever ended up happening with that band The Crew that you released a demo with in 2014? That stuff ripped!
Thank you! That was super fun. The name “The Crew” was one I was sitting on for a few years, but never had the right collection of people and vibe and finally got it with that group. It was me and a bunch of young kids just out of high school. But it was super short lived.
We did a demo and played maybe 5 or 6 shows and that fizzled out pretty quickly. Matt who played guitar was in Change for a bit! He’s playing in End of Dayz now. And Casey, who played bass is in The Crew, is a million bands now including Apex Predator (make sure to peep that "Jesus Wept" video!), Gag, Odd Man Out, Crawl Space, and more, I’m sure.
I know you weren’t on the recording sessions for the Closer Still album, but how did you end up joining Change once Aram decided to turn it into more than just a one-off project sort of deal? I think Change is one of the best hardcore bands around today.
That record was really the culmination of a long and cathartic road for the guys that wrote and recorded it. By the time it was finished I don’t think anyone in the band had any intention of it being an actual band by that point. But when I heard it, I loved it and really encouraged Aram to consider keeping it going.
I thought the music was killer and the lyrics and message behind Change were super important. So, Aram asked me to join on guitar and it was exactly what I needed in my life where I was and am right now. And the opportunity to play in a band with him again for the first time in more than a decade was really cool too.
Since Change has toured a bit in the last few years, how do you see things from the perspective of someone who has been an active part of the hardcore scene since the ‘90s? There’s a consensus with people I know that hardcore is never been as “big” as it these days.
It’s been really cool. I’ve never stopped playing in bands since Champion broke up and never stopped actively participating in hardcore, but Change has really been the first band since then to play outside of the PNW (aside from one US tour with Poverty Bay Saints and a quick trip to NorCal w/ Dead Weight). So, it’s been a great vehicle to see old friends and play with killer new bands from all over.
One of the things I miss the most about the Champion days is constantly being exposed to so many good bands and also constantly forming such tight bonds with people from all over the world. It’s cool to get to taste a bit of that with Change and to revisit old connections has been really special.
What’s up with Change right now? I texted Aram not long ago asking/ pleading for some new material!
Half the members of the band have other bands who are more active and every member of the band has families and/or serious partners and other priorities. So it makes things a bit sparse. But we all love doing it, so we occasionally carve out time to do Change stuff between these other things. So, who knows what’s next. We promised we’d do another record with Indecision Records, and Aram did share some new lyrics with me last week. So…..
Even though you’re synonymous with Seattle hardcore, you’ve since become a fellow California transplant, settling down in San Luis Obispo. What brought that on and how are you feeling about the move? Andrew Kline told me you’ve been doing hardcore-related work in the scene in that region since
My wife’s mother is in SLO. So, we moved here for family, primarily. But also, to get away from the rain a bit. I love Seattle with all my heart and the people there even more. But it was the right confluence of circumstances that led us to SLO.
We’ve been here for two years and we really enjoy it here. It’s a pretty mellow pace. They call it “the SLO life” (laughs). It’s also close enough to Southern California or the Bay to do a short road trip when I’m craving friends, good food or see a show I want to hit.
Some friends of mine in the SLO area (shout out Dennis, Krista, Matt, and Caleb) and I started a collective doing harccore and adjacent shows in Arroyo Grande (just outside of SLO). We do them in a children’s clothing store that Krista and Matt own called Hello Village.
Our first show was in May and we’ve done maybe two dozen since. Follow @Village_HC_shows on Instagram for details. But it’s been a lot of fun. The scene here is small, but has a great young energy and I’m super excited to see things continue to build in the North 805.
Before closing this out, I have to ask, what is the all-time Seattle hardcore record (LP or EP)?
Purists will say this is cheating, but I’m taking the Brotherhood discography “Words Run…As Thick As Blood!” or “Till Death…”
Any last words or anything to close on?
Yeah, first off; thank you for your ongoing support of Change and all that No Echo does for the scene. It’s super-impressive how seriously you take on the monumental task of trying to keep up with and amplify as many new bands as you can. The new music playlists, in particular are so massive.. I can’t imagine how much time goes into updating that. But I know it’s so cool for newer bands to be included on that playlist. So, thank you for all you do.
Second, I’d like to close with a few thoughts on rape and sexual assault. It’s important to me to keep this conversation going in our scenes and beyond. It’s an awkward conversation and it hurts to think that this kind of thing still happens in spaces like this, but my hope is that the more we talk about it and the more we shine a light on what it is, the smaller the surface area is for assault to sneak by and slither through the shadows in our scene.
I won’t pretend to have all the answers, but for me the central conversation needs to be about consent and what consent is and the factors that may impact consent.
Let’s be real clear; sexual activity without consent is rape. Consent is clear, active and ongoing, with a partner of age and of clear mind. It’s not coerced, through intimidation, power structures or substances such as alcohol or drugs. It’s important that we continually examine how we engage with others and make sure our interactions are clearly consensual. It’s also important that we continue to examine our interactions in the scene to make sure we aren’t developing predatorial relationships that can lead to this type of abuse.
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Follow Chris on Instagram, and stay tuned to the Village HC Shows account if you want to see gigs in the San Luis Obispo region.
Tagged: 2000s hardcore week, champion, change, dead weight, the vows
